Curse

MithranArkanere · Jul 12, 2010, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

And about those 09830659 conditions and hexes , no , doesnt happen in 99% of the game. RC and IJAFW > conditions anywhere.

PS: "easy 50 pips of degen" , still loling.

Of course not, but 10 places are enough.
It doesn't matter where it is, if there's once place in between in which you'll die before starting to cast.

For example, the EotN mandragors are in the first area of EotN.
The Orrian undead love degen.
Most traps in EotN are annoying enough already just with burning. Add the dryders and their hexes, and you won't get out of there.
Anywhere an illusion mesmer and a blood necromancer team p, you'll get over 40 pips guaranteed.

And those are just examples.

Of course you won't get many of those all over the game. But if to get to point C, you have to go through point B, and point B is an insta-kill, then you won't get to point C.

Because it's way easier to add degen than to remove degen or add regen.

Ugh · Jul 12, 2010, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Degen used to be just fine. Then the game changed. Most everyone here seems to be ignoring this.

Degen caps at 10 pips, or 20 dps. This is a drop in the water compared to direct damage skills available in PvE. Even elementalists with full armor susceptible damage can put out better than this. There is just no real use for degen in PvE.

The answer to this is not to change degen, but to deal with the huge shitty power creep after power creep. Of course once you give a child a toy, you can't take it away, so the power creep will never be dealt with. You could change degen, but that would be another power creep and create more problems. You could take away degen, but that would be taking away someone's toy. So instead we are left with an outdated mechanic, that no viable change will make it useful, and yet it cannot be gotten rid of.

That ^

twelve

Amy Awien · Jul 13, 2010, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Who is going to bring 5 degen skills out of 8 to get any decent effect out of them?

Apply Poison generally brings approx 140 damage to the fight, per arrow fired. Hit 6 mobs and that's pretty good damage and a decent 72 DPS - for one skill. Stack a bunch of AoE degen conditions and hexes and you'll see their health bars dropping, fast.

Interesting idea, but somewhat OP perhaps, would require some rebalancing of skills and area's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

... And there's not 1 thing wrong with it the way it is.

The general opinion is that degen is not worth bringing in PvE, which makes your statement pretty weird.

Cuilan · Jul 13, 2010, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Not sure about removing, but raising the degen cap would be fine.

Generally degen is simply healed because it's so pitiful. Many (all) of the examples mentioned about degen being scary...aren't even even if the cap is raised.

RedStar · Jul 14, 2010, 10:13 AM // 10:13

I'm guessing that if you modified the degen cap, you change the regen cap.
So let's take Life transfer : aoe 8 degen hex that gives you the same regen per each foe affected. 5 foes hit : 80 hp/sec... and to hit 5 foes isn't that hard if you try.

For the degen part : what Mithran said. Some places are annoying enough, let's not make it worse by changing something that's fine.

The Josip · Jul 14, 2010, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Okay, so general conclusion of guru community is that degen is balanced with physical damage (and other damage), and that increase in degeneraton would be overpowered to such an extend that some of the people here would not be able to beat *insert monster x* group.

Imagine that, you go to face Mandragors (and they are always at the same place) - and you can't just bring generic direct damage build (ok you can but for the sake of argument..) but, gasp, need to take some condition or hex removal, or perhaps an interrupt, or heck one of a million other things. Just imagine that, an average lazy GWer would have to, gasp, actively face a monster group instead of C+space (although, honestly, c+space would still work). Oh the horror. Oh the attack on the unthinking process of GWers. Oh the need for minimal creativity. Such pain and horror.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Degen caps at 10 pips, or 20 dps. This is a drop in the water compared to direct damage skills available in PvE. Even elementalists with full armor susceptible damage can put out better than this. There is just no real use for degen in PvE.

Alas venerable Reverend! Few are those endowed with Knowledge and Understanding, and many are unfamiliar with the mysteries of Heaven. Beyond number is the mass that threads the path of darkness, towards the everburning pits of Hell.

For great effect of degeneration affects their minds only.

Lanier · Jul 14, 2010, 03:41 PM // 15:41

so, uh, yea... i disagree completely that degen is perfectly balanced damage wise... 20 dps at 10 degen isnt very good at all. I dont like advancing power creep, but i really think that regen/degen should be given a little bit of a boost so that skills like healing breeze and conjure nightmare can compete with the alternatives available. Either slightly raise the regen cap and lower the degen cap or make it so that each pip causes slightly more regen/degen.

Xiaquin · Jul 14, 2010, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Degenway......

No thank you. Make the ranger more useful, not part of a new imbalance.

Lanier · Jul 14, 2010, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Degenway......

No thank you. Make the ranger more useful, not part of a new imbalance.

im refering to pve, not pvp. In pvp degen/regen is fine as it is.

Cuilan · Jul 14, 2010, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I'm going to link to this thread every time someone on this forum says degen sucks. Degen is just a strong as physicals and physical buffing.

Xiaquin · Jul 14, 2010, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

im refering to pve, not pvp.

So was I.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Degen is just a strong as physicals and physical buffing.

You're kidding, right? Did my sarcasm detector break?

Lanier · Jul 15, 2010, 04:06 AM // 04:06

...whatever... im not arrogent enough to believe that im right when everyone else disagrees. For that reason, ill go ahead and say keep degen the way it is. Im still kind of curious why before this thread everyone (not literally "everyone" but a vast majority of the community) was like "degen's damage sucks in PvE... don't use degen skills in PvE" and now people are like "degen is fine the way it is".

RedStar · Jul 15, 2010, 04:52 AM // 04:52

In the hands of mobs, degen is annoying. In the hand of an 8 man party, it's not too strong.
That is because the mob "only" has to kill the party while an 8 man party has to face many different groups in the same zone, the party has to be able to take down any groups. Bringing too much skills just for one mob isn't really worth it.
And don't forget, the degen conditions don't work on every foes, but they work on every players (unless you "waste" a skill slot).
My point here is that it's going to be more useful for enemies than for players...

Also remember : you want to change the degen cap, so your team will logically have more than 3 skills to significantly do a 20+ degen (because if you just want the degen cap removed when you'll just manage to do 12 degen, then this thread was not really worth creating. One of the reasons I think zelgadissan told you to post skills suggestions).

Abedeus · Jul 15, 2010, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I'm going to link to this thread every time someone on this forum says degen sucks. Degen is just a strong as physicals and physical buffing.

Degen is at best 20hp per second.

A physical can deal up to 80-120 damage unbuffed every 1.5 seconds and even more often when buffed and with IAS.

Degen in PvP is good, because when spread to many people, it's harder to control than some people just hitting your guys. In PvE, however, where monsters have hundreds of health more than players in PvP, it's not viable.

Xiaquin · Jul 15, 2010, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Im still kind of curious why before this thread everyone (not literally "everyone" but a vast majority of the community) was like "degen's damage sucks in PvE... don't use degen skills in PvE" and now people are like "degen is fine the way it is".

I understand that, but it's simply pressure, not a primary way to kill something. It's more effective against humans than AI because our brains see "omg I'm dying!" and panic. To AI, it's really meaningless, they will simply use healing spells, if necessary, and otherwise ignore the fact that they are on fire and bleeding out of every hole in their bodies.

In short, it's useful in PvP, and just a bonus in PvE. Used against you, and it's just another challenge to overcome.

Mintha Syl · Jul 15, 2010, 08:45 AM // 08:45

I couldn't decide wether this was a good idea. It's true that degen is very weak in pve and, even if it saves some situations where physical it's a no no, it's generally lot weaker than direct damage. And sometimes I'd really like it to be really effective as I found it lot more funny than direct damage, to apply.

But...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

My point here is that it's going to be more useful for enemies than for players...

...this.

So I can't support this suggestion.

The Josip · Jul 15, 2010, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintha Syl

...this.

So I can't support this suggestion.

Because you're barely surviving in PvE?

Shouldn't a player of your skill level be posting in another subforum asking for tips instead? It must be tough not to have old Shadow Form so you can pay a runner in some EotN dungeon, it must be tough not to have Ursan and other stuff. Tell me, how do you even sleep at night, the game must exhaust you mentally. So much effort to beat 1 static, set, mindless AI mob.

If only I had mercy and sympathy for poor and the weak. Ah.. it's a failing of mine. I guess it's because it's so obvious weak are weak because they never deal with increasing their own strength but always hampering the strength of others, or chopping heads off.

Please excuse my off-topic

PS: I really think ANet needs to implement "Easy mode" in the game. Obviously, for some normal mode is too difficult, and for hard mode everyone thinks he/she should be allowed to effortlessly flaw through. Really, why is that? Why does everyone think, regardless of the newbie level, that he/she should effortlessly beat every HM area? Why is that? Did I miss some birth right here? Please help Mintha Syl and vote for Easy mode. I'm making a thread now.

Mintha Syl · Jul 15, 2010, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Uhm..what, were you talking with me? Sorry, you made me so sleepy with all that nonsense...I'm sure you can't sleep at night trying to figure how to try and insult people yourself

Grow up a bit if you ever find time btween all those heavy occupations of yours, will you?

PS. my last reply

The Josip · Jul 15, 2010, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Since you wasted your time replying you could've at least answered some of the stuff.

Do you find Normal mode too difficult?

Or do you think that everyone should be able to complete Hard mode?

Do you think that the fact that 99% of hard mode can be C+spaced while AFK (heroes/henchmen doing everything) is too difficult and that monster mobs are almost-overpowered?

Btw that thing you just typed is typical defense mechanism, but I am not interested in it. Here, I've typed some questions, so if you don't mind.

Mintha Syl · Jul 15, 2010, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Since you wasted your time replying you could've at least answered some of the stuff.

Do you find Normal mode too difficult?

Or do you think that everyone should be able to complete Hard mode?

Do you think that the fact that 99% of hard mode can be C+spaced while AFK (heroes/henchmen doing everything) is too difficult and that monster mobs are almost-overpowered?

Btw that thing you just typed is typical defense mechanism, but I am not interested in it. Here, I've typed some questions, so if you don't mind.

Uhm I didn't think at all you were serious so if you really want serious answers...
1-No
2-Yes, sooner or later
3-I think if someone gets to the stage where in hm h/h can do all the work while that person is doing something else, he should really do something to find some challenge again, and instead of giving more power to foes one can easily take less OP bars (or very underpowered bars if he's really that good) and start again to play the game; otherways stop playing at alla and find something else to do, because when a game becomes too easy it means you really spent too much time on it. Everything IMHO.